Calling all Vegetarians/Vegans!

Thanks for jumping on the forum, Jessica!  I talked to you a little already regarding my experiences and studies with vegetarianism - some great benefits to it and some things to be careful of as well.  Great to have a thread to address it all!

Dr. Joe,

I would like to hear what your thoughts are on being on a vegetarain diet and doing physical exercise. I see it as the systems (digestive, nervous, reproductive.. ect) of the body is not ment to just run on just plant based foods. I don't think we would have survived as a species if are ancestors just ate plant foods.

Thanks!

I have been lacto-vegetarian for quite a few years now.  I in fact converted to this eating in the middle of a contest prep because it was more economical.  A few years later and I've found no ill effects by way of bodybuilding or health.  It did bring up a question though.  I've seen a great many contest prep, what I think people here would call "peak week" (though not of Dr. Joe's) and I'm always struck by how specific the meat prescribed for each meal is.  Does anybody else notice this?  4oz steak, 6oz chicken, 8oz tilapia...whatever.  I've wondered the idea behind this (whether it's logical or not).  For that matter, often the carb source is very specific as well (1c white rice, 1/2c sweet potato, etc.) which again makes me curious as to the specificity of these foods come about.  Maybe it's just a way for the coach to eliminate errors by the competitor.

Hey Dr.Joe, happy to chat here on a great forum!  

Having been on both sides of the animal protein fence, my conclusion is that you have to listen to your body and think deeply about what your goals and intentions are for your health.  Nutrition is always changing and evolving.  As we learn more about nutrition through proper research and evidence-based results, we also should be learning more about our individual bodies.

Our nutritional needs will change as we grow older, take on new activities, adjust to seasons and climates, experience the evolution of our technological world...alot of variables that will influence our nutritional choices.  As for whether or not humans should eat an omnivorous diet I believe it all depends on the individual.  

While I follow a vegan diet today, I may not in a year, or ten years from now.  I have grown to learn that it is of utmost importance to listen to what your body needs and make adjustments accordingly.  I believe you must be vigilant and mindful about your choices and learn what works for you and what doesn't.  And to be more flexible and experimental with your nutrition.  It's the greatest personal science project learning about your body and how to maximize performance and achieve optimal health and wellness through nutrition:)

I'll dump all my findings on here soon - fun to have a place to organize it.   For now, there are pros and cons.

Rage, "we would not survive as a species...."  Seems like cows and hippos and other herbivores survive just fine without eating animals.  Their nervous systems, immune systems, big toe systems.....all running quite smoothly. 

The body is quite adaptable.  We can live just fine without animal sources, but we may not thrive.  There are deficits that we can incur and you have to ask yourself, if it's purely for what's best for the human body, how will you know?  That's where actual research comes in and there is plenty.  The next question is how do you feel physically?  Do you feel you're at your best?  How do you feel in a practical sense - can you get the foods you like? 

Then, there are the ethical aspects; some people just get grossed out eating another living thing - I can appreciate that.  When I did two stints as a vegetarian it was a transition to go back....literally just didn't want to eat meat.

More soon - good conversation!

Yes very good convo started here...

Survive vs. thrive...indeed a good point to ponder..and that is where I think whatever diet you choose to adopt, make sure it is meeting your needs to thrive emotionally, physically, and spiritually...

In preparing for last year's competitions, it was difficult for me to consume all the animal protein...mentally it was tough...physically, I can't say I felt bad while I was doing it, but after 6 months of eating like that, I just had enough..I was done with it! So I transitioned back, taking about a month to do it.  

At this point, I feel the best all around with my current diet.  Will be interesting to see what happens as I go through a contest prep and how I adjust to the training and dieting as a vegan.  My biggest concern is making sure I don't develop any deficiencies and stay healthy throughout the process.

Known potential deficiencies are minor and can be taken care of with supplementation - even protein.  It's especially easier if you go the route of lacto-ovo and can use some egg whites, cottage cheese, protein powder, etc.  If you're disciplined with that and can get even the minimum amount of protein you need, it shouldn't be a problem.  The story isn't complete on my self-research - I'll do more blood work this fall to get another baseline with a year of "normal" eating now that I have a year as a lacto-ovo and the previous to that.  I've never done a hormone profile prior to the conclusion of the year of vegetarianism and I want to have some comparative data for that.  The rest of the blood chem really wasn't significant.  Blood lipids went down a fraction and there really weren't any changes in much else.  I was expecting a big drop.  My cholosterol has tested as low as almost under 100 but has typically been in the 120-130 range with normal eating; I thought it would drop back to a really low level....but my HDL is much higher as a baseline now compared to 20 years ago due to more CV work.....a total cholesterol in the 130's now is likely the same as 105 back then with HDLs 20 points lower. 

The hormone profile is especially interesting for me...more to my story, after my last competition, I really just hit the wall...I was very mindful of the post-competition "blues" emotionally and physically, but I became increasingly more fatigued about a month or so after competing to the degree where I could barely lift 10 pounds over my head...at that point I was still eating animal protein and was at a decent caloric level and was still working out moderately.  So off to the doc I went, bloodwork was normal except it was discovered that I had mono!  Now I think that is a little strange for a 37yr old to have that, and I did not have the typical fever and swollen lymph nodes, just chronic fatigue...so I decided that I wanted more testing in regards to vitamin levels and hormones.

So I saw another doctor and ran a gamut of tests after being on a vegan diet for about 2 months.  Still wasn't feeling quite like myself...vitamin levels were excellent, but turns out my adrenals were not up to par, thyroid was slighlty low as well as my estrogen profile.  Course I wonder if they were like that previous to my change in diet.  Now that I have changed up my diet and feeling really good I'm wondering what my profile looks like now...I'm due to see the doc again this week and will be interesting to see what has changed in the last 6 months.

I do wish I had the hormone profile done when I went to the first doc...but once they saw the mono, they stopped testing and it took some time for me to see another doc.  So while it won't be a perfect comparative test, will still be good data to have and see how this diet has been working for me over the last few months.

Will be interesting Dr. Joe to see what your bloodwork looks like in the fall...about how much and what kind of animal protein are you consuming a day?? 

The context is important regarding my diet now.  I'm retired - haven't competed in over four years.  I'd love to say retaining muscle isn't important, but after almost 30 years of training, I can't let it go - I still hit every workout like I have a show in a month.  I just love training for training's sake.  But, I'm not willing (any longer) to revolve all of life around the next meal, so there is some give and take.  My best contest weight was around 150 lbs and I'm 158-8 right now and if I do the math on body comp, I'm within a couple lbs of my best lean body mass.

All of that said, I do get 1-2 meals per day with animal protein - usually the free-range, chemical-free steer we have locally butchered every year.  I try to avoid chicken and poultry entirely except the occasional few egg whites.  I eat virtually no fish.  I have 1-2 scoops of premium, can't-be-matched, medical-grade, Diet Doc Precision Protein Blend, and a serving of Greek yogurt daily.  So, maybe 100 g on a low day, 150 g on a high day.  When competing I would eat 200-225 g and sometimes 250. 

You are fortunate to have a butcher who can provide you with that quality of meat...if you are going to eat meat, that is the way to go for sure!

I just got my hormone profile back from the doc...and after 5 months of a vegan diet and supplementing with Maca root, I'm happy to say all is great in that department.  Next will be to evaluate my thyroid and adrenal function and see how those look.  

Wow, 30 years of training! That is amazing!

Very good - glad your blood chem looks good; always a relief!

I think any community would have organically grown livestock.  We don't go through a butcher, we go through a farmer and we select the steer from him and the butcher. 

Each day we eat three meals a day and a snack or two in between. We do this so we can have strong bones, muscles, and healthy bodies. We may eat our breakfast and our lunch and even dinner without thinking about the teeth that help us to chew the foods that we need and want each day. We need food to keep our bones and muscles strong and healthy, but we also need food to keep our teeth and gums healthy too. Isocort   Petadolex