Cheat meals

I have one higher carb and calorie day per week this time and one cheat meal. I think if you cheat, you should eat what you REALLY want but you shouldn´t overdo it with the portion size.

Pretty much the same as philipp I have a high carb higher fat day once per week , I use this day to have a cheat meal and treat myself or eat the same as the family for a change !

I actually use it to get me through the tough days on the diet if I feel weak I just look forward to my nice meal which keeps me clean the rest of the time , I also move the day around and tend to put it on a hard training day like legs or back where I move a lot of poundage makes me feel like I've earned it then ! Although if circumstances don't allow that I will eat it on a rest day.

What I eat varies but sometimes i have a burger with low fat cheese slice , pizza ,chilli and rice, Chinese stir fry chicken or prawns ( Homemade )  so I know exactly what I'm eating everything still gets weighed and listed down religiously even on the cheat meal and stay within my numbers I never just have an all out binge .

I will not be doing this in the run up to my comp though purely an off season indulgence.

yeah i also put mine on my leg training day. I am on this Moes chicken burrito kick right now with black beans and rice. Man its good

Are we talking when we're not prepping and you're just maintaining a nice, comfortable weight? If you're flexible, you should be able to eat what you want ALL the time and not feel like you have to schedule a cheat meal. With a solid, healthy  mindset about food and meals, you could have some pizza whenever, and just recognize that you may have something with a bit less fat and carbs for your next meal. You might have dessert for breakfast instead of dinner AND dessert later. There's no reason to blow up in the "off-season", but there's no reason to feel like you cannot eat what you want either.

Tyler and I were in the DD kitchen the other day and he asked me what I eat ONLY when I prep. There's not a single thing. My food doesn't change. There's nothing, except certain supplements, that I consider "dieting" food or the other way around.

Hi Kori

I understand what your saying Kori , I do think I have a healthy attitude towards food but I'm trying to improve and bring a much improved package to the stage next year and I feel the only way I can do this is to eat the best quality foods I can consistently, so I try to minimize things of low quality such as pizza and desserts the majority of the time as foods like that just take up calorie space that could be filled by much more productive foods.

You obviously know your own body extremely well and have achieved great things you can be rightly proud of for those of us here still chasing that perfect condition on show day myself included I feel I need to do everything possible to make it happen and I just don't have the control of my body that you clearly do , but don't get me wrong I hope to one day understand it so that like you I could live free of the diet mind set !!  

Still Learning

Rob

Rob! I appreciate the compliments for sure. I've definitely improved over my years of competing, and I've learned something new each and every time I prep. That's the goal right? Along with that, my openness to being less rigid has also evolved. Yes, I ate out during my prep. Of course it's not going to be as "clean" or counted to exact gram like the food would be at home when you prepare it, but the difference is negligible. I wasn't eating pizza that I would get from a restaurant when I was prepping-- I'd make my own. Desserts were the same.  And you bring up a good point-- you get to choose how you want to use your calories. For me, what was going to be most filling and hold me through to the next meal was most important. Even now, when I'm not dieting for a show, you put a burger or a blizzard in front of me, and I'm choosing the burger! I want something that's going to sustain me! You use a good word though in your last sentence..."live". I am absolutely not saying you need to eat junk to really "live". I  know plenty of people like that, and I certainly do not subscribe to that mindset. But I do believe we need flexibility, and the more rigid we get the more deprived we can feel. Balance is key, and it takes a while for some to define that for themselves. Improving happens mind and body! :)

Good topic; I wonder if there's a couple different conversations going on......one being what people actually enjoy eating for a cheat meal, where they place it (training day or rest day), or if they struggle with feeling restricted and the going overboard?  Not sure if I gleaned all the correct intent from the posts, but that's my take.

I really don't recommend cheat meals when contest dieting, but more for the off-season.  Let me give a little semantical breakdown:

Pre-contest:

Perfection.  Clean, healthy foods....low-glycemic carbs, etc.  For carb increases - more of the same foods or dipping into slightly less perfect foods, but certainly no junk food.  I would often have a 12" Subway sub for most of the balance of the extra carbs on a high day while dieting, so my extra carbs were coming from wheat, but not really bad food.  Maybe some baked chips as well.

Off-season:

A good dose of flexibility is key.  You don't have to eat on a perfect schedule, but be smart.  Mostly great quality, but like with my sub example, feel free to have some gray-area foods.  When you do have a cheat meal, the quantity depends on what your metabolism can handle.  You should be recovered from it within 2-3 days weight-wise (your body working through the extra stored glycogen).  Make it as gooey and nasty as you want with the foods you're not typically eating - it is the off-season. 

Real Life:

When eating well, and this may be more to Kori's points, you can basically follow the same off-season mindset, but you need to avoid high volume as a general rule.  In New York this weekend, we split desserts, often split actual meals, and had a great time with food, but didn't go from one binge to another.  Real life is that hardest transition for competitors. 

Cheat meals can be a slippery slope for some....and can create a messed up relationship with food if not managed properly...if you're in prep mode. the obvious is ''no junk'' but off-season can turn into a messy food fest because you know its only a matter of time until you're super strict again with no cheating...most bber's are unhappy in the off-season because of this reason, they are uncomfortable with the little freedom and want to look like they're stage ready.

Joe is absolutely right, transition from competitor to real life is by far the most difficult to deal with. it took me years to get some normalcy in my life with food. and the minute i tried to go back to that restrictive lifestyle, BAM the dis functionality with food took over..then with a little help from a friend ;) i was able to over come it again and have a full filling relationship with food.

right now sitting 3-4 lbs away from my old show weight and eating what i want with control is more full filling than any cheat meal. especially with the holidays and thanksgiving coming up you need to have a plan and some control. enjoy the food for Thanksgiving ..there is no need to eat until you can't move and gain 10lbs! LOL just have one larger plate of food and a dessert, enjoy it but be done. last year i lost weight on Thanksgiving and ate what i wanted at the dinner table. just need to know the limits. it's a much better feeling waking up the next day knowing that you feel good but had balance, ate what you love and didn't go crazy. not worth it.

ok i'm done :)

I have found that having a "cheat" item with a meal tempts me less from going off course than to have an entire cheat meal.  Feeling like I can eat what I want when I want and still stay within my macros and/or overall plan helps to keep me mentally engaged.  This way I feel like I am in control as compared to being controlled by the urge to indulge which is how I feel when I think I am depriving myself of the food that I enjoy.

I'm finding that after my first competition, post-competition food management is much more difficult than I expected.  I have anxiety over anything I eat that is not "clean" and I seem to focus on "the numbers" of everything I consume.  I want to stick 99% to the clean meal diet plan, be able to enter the exact macro-nutrient information into my spreadsheets, but read above that Joe, Graig and others state it is healthy to find balance and/or normalcy in what food we eat post-competition.  What's in that incredibly good looking muffin, turkey harvest wrap, burger and/or specialty pizza slice?!  I'm going into my 1st off-season wanting to get bigger and stronger, work on my weak points to have a more successful season in 2011.  I want to eat foods that boarder cheat/treat and gross, but it's stressing me out.  For those of you who have been through this, what can you offer for advice.  Do we need to micro-manage everything we eat, even in the off-season.  I'm only looking to treat myself one meal a week, is this too little or just enough for the 1st month of the off-season?  I never imagined I would have this issue, but it's hard to let go of the physique I put so much effort into building over the last 8+ months.  Lastly, does your water intake decrease, or do you continue to drink 1.5 - 2 gallons of water a day year round?  Thanks for any advice offered.

Yep, I only have cheat meals during off season maintaining a comfortable weight. I do what Joe has taught me and on contest only bring in high quality foods on those higher days. But look out Thanksgiving

what you are talking about is the biggest challenge for bodybuilders (and the reason i left the sport ) because there is a freak out over counting macro's on a daily basis it's just too much sometimes.... for the most part we are all very good at this point knowing what we can eat on a daily basis, you just need to feel free to use your noodle and get some math done, but don't freak if your off here or there. it's life and not the end of the world.

you do not need to micro-manage everything you eat, even in the off-season.  and treating yourself one meal a week is perfectly fine i would think if you are not gaining too fast.  and don't worry about the water, just drink as much as you would normally need. get enough water in to be hydrated and feel good, don't stress over counting water my man, that is going to far ;)

the fact of the matter is that it takes practice and patience. i would say that you can definitely eat what you want when you want but you have to know the overall "cost'' of food....and you'll be just fine! hope this helps.

try going 3 days with out tracking...thats a good first step.

Thanks for the input Graig, I really appreciate your time and insight into my inquiry.  I guess this is the learning curve I'm due to discover.  So far I've been drinking water when I want it, which is when I'm thirsty, and I'm probably averaging 1.5 gallons per day.  Your recommendation for eating food for three days with no tracking seems scary, hahaha, but is very sensible/reasonable.  My weight has not changed more than a pound since the competition, three days untracked most likely will not throw me that far off coarse.  Again, thank you for your input!

Castin - The Joey Bag of Donuts. You are speaking my language there, man! HA!

Just going to throw my own .02 cents in here.

I think the flexibility greatly depends on your contest season/plans moving forward. We have clients who have an "off-season" that lasts 3 months. And we have other clients whose "off-season" is 3-4 years. Totally different ballgame. If you are coming off a contest and looking to get on stage again in a few months or even later that year, you need to keep tracking things, stay precise and like Joe said, budget things carefully - knowing you don't have the luxury of gaining much (if any) body fat because the clock is ticking.

But the client who is coming off the stage and is not on stage for a year or more? Depending on who they are and what they were dieting on, they may need to be careful immediately after the show (due to a decreased metabolic rate that can bite them pretty fast if they just eat way too much food). As their met rate picks up in the weeks and months after the show, they can stop tracking slowly and transition into that "normal" eating. No need to track everything precisely for years while you wait for the next show. As a bodybuilder, you are going to be aware that you need X amount of protein and carbs each day - and you'll make sure you get what you need during that prolonged "off-season".

Castin - The Joey Bag of Donuts. You are speaking my language there, man! HA!

Just going to throw my own .02 cents in here.

I think the flexibility greatly depends on your contest season/plans moving forward. We have clients who have an "off-season" that lasts 3 months. And we have other clients whose "off-season" is 3-4 years. Totally different ballgame. If you are coming off a contest and looking to get on stage again in a few months or even later that year, you need to keep tracking things, stay precise and like Joe said, budget things carefully - knowing you don't have the luxury of gaining much (if any) body fat because the clock is ticking.

But the client who is coming off the stage and is not on stage for a year or more? Depending on who they are and what they were dieting on, they may need to be careful immediately after the show (due to a decreased metabolic rate that can bite them pretty fast if they just eat way too much food). As their met rate picks up in the weeks and months after the show, they can stop tracking slowly and transition into that "normal" eating. No need to track everything precisely for years while you wait for the next show. As a bodybuilder, you are going to be aware that you need X amount of protein and carbs each day - and you'll make sure you get what you need during that prolonged "off-season".

Someone emailed this question - it's a great one I'd love to get opinions on:

Regarding high/refeed days... If I were to have 1 refeed day/week where my calories go to maintenance or just a bit under, what are the pros/cons of having it on a workout day vs an off day?  Which method do you usually utilize?  I've heard both ways before... On off days maybe the extra calories/carbs will go toward replenishing you and getting you ready for the hard workouts ahead in the week.  On a workout day, maybe the extra calories/carbs will go toward fueling the workout for that day.. What do you think?  Does it really matter too much, like if maybe one week it falls on a workout day and one week it falls on an off day?

My answer:

Those are the two arguments - sounds like you heard one of my clients explain it. Typically, I only see articles advocating using the higher food levels on training days, but there are good arguments for days off to actually get the glycogen assimilated first.  Both have value; I'd try each to see how you feel each way.

Who has tried it both ways and what do you feel works best for you?

Helen and I have our regular refeed day on Sunday. It just usually works out better for us time and conveince ways. Does not matter if it is a workout day or not. I really have never felt like it made any difference. I feel that when you training extremely hard that you are almost always in a state of recovery wether it is a workout day or a day off. Your body, or at least mine can always use more carbs to help me replenish my energy levels.

When I last was monitored by Joe for several months, I did try both options and cannot honestly say that I noticed any difference one way or another.

My refeed day was generally always a Saturday. With it brought a great sense of relief for me. My working week was over, my dieting week was over and my training week was over, at least for one day. However, even if I did not train on that day, I did always include a long walk. I could contemplate a glass of Sancerre, some fresh bread and strong cheese and for me, it doesn't get much better than that. Best of all, if you are right back on your game the next day, it makes no difference to speak of.

I might also add that possibly, I am the sort of individual that seems to be able to put out much the same effort during these times, regardless of when I refeed. Which is just as well, considering the carb levels I was on!

For me it works best when I do my training first thing in the morning, only having 2-3 rice cakes with some honey and a BCAA-Whey-Protein-mix with water, and starting my higher carb day after the workout with a good breakfast. So I can use the extra carbs for recovery and replenishing my glycogen stores for the next training sessions

Three great answers.  For a long time I would have my higher-carb days or even in the off-season, cheat-meal days, on my priority training days like with dead lifts or squats, etc.  I did what Philipp mentioned - train, then go eat a truckload of food.  My last contest season, I held myself to just one higher day and though I trained Mon/Tues/Thurs/Fri, I would have my high day on Saturday.  I found that for two reasons I liked it more.  First, just socially and due to family time, it was nice having it at the beginning of the weekend.  Get filled up, take the edge off, have a bigger meal with the family, and I'm happy for the weekend.  It's easier to diet during the normal schedule of the week.  It also gave me time to assimilate the carbs through my whole body more; not just seeing a physiological priority to the just-trained body part if you do the food bump after training.  Even after 4-5 days of resumed dieting, whatever body part I trained was very full and holding much more glycogen then if I hadn't had the weekend to assimilate the carbs. 

Another great question emailed to me today by a client:

Just was wondering, in your own practices what have u found to be "ok" for treating yourself ( like how many times a week, and what would be ok to eat) to stay within a good lean enough state?

I ask this because I have a big conscience when it comes to going off my structured eating plan, even in an off season where I know I'm not gonna compete for a year to a year and a half. I've been dieting for so long that I get stuck in that mode. I wanna be good for when I go to diet again and also feel and look good while in an off season.  Any advice on my question, and based on your own practices?

Thanks man!

My Answer:

Good question!  It really depends on your overall structure for the off-season.  Let's say you top out at 2,500-2,700 calories you can eat and not gain too much body fat.  You could daily eat some food that's not "that bad" and be okay.  Cereal?  Bread?  A serving or two of chips?  Even a piece of cake?  A casserole that may have more fat in it or may have to be estimated?  A Subway sandwich?  I'd plan to eat most meals just like pre-contest - healthy food - but more of it, and then allow for something like this.  That may make an actual weekly cheat meal less eventful - less of a binge, and just a bigger meal.  Some people like to stay super strict all year round, and though I admire than for being purely health-conscious (and it can be done), I don't feel most are THAT perfect and will crack if they try to hard to be.  Even something like a Dairy Queen Blizzard (small) - if I plan for 350 g of carbs per day and 70 g of fat, why not get 80-100 grams of carbs in one meal if I'm willing to have just 40-50 in the other meals (and I really want that Blizzard)?  The key is keeping an eye on your weight, your goals, and keep your health in mind as you go.....but allow for real-life flexibility.  There's time enough to be super strict when it's officially pre-contest.

Hi everyone! I just began Joe and Sean's program on Jan. 13. I am very excited because i will be competing for the first time hopefully in June! I have been on the program for about 7 weeks and have about 14 more to go. I do have one high carb day of 175 and I guess my question to joe and Sean is. Is it ok to have my one slice of pizza or my small fry and cheeseburger from Mdonalds if it is within the number range? or is it better to just stick with the high quality carbs for that day? I guess i feel because I still have 14 more weeks i am able to do that.

175 for the higher carb days? Oh, that´s hard! My lower carb days are higher than that! But I can feel with you, last year I had to go very low with my carbs, too. 

In my opinion, it isn´t a problem to have a cheat-meal, even during prep, as long as you stay with in your macros. But Joe has to decide it, so it is just my personal experience. But I always felt much more satisfied after having a bigger portion of clean carbs. But only a personal experience, too.

But good luck for the rest of your prep - you will love the result at the end and you will enjoy the time on the stage! 

tthanos_2000.....whoever you are, email me - quick!  : )  If I've suggested a clean-carb increase specifically at a certain carb range, that's not a cheat meal.  I only advocate cheat meals in the off-season or an occasional event planned well in advance and accounted for (for example; a client just started official pre-contest dieting two weeks ago and his birthday is in one week - we planned a cheat meal...put parameters on it, built the day and week around it, and it will be fine.)  I'd not do that too close to the show, nor is it something I do throughout the peaking process.

Sorry, I don't recognize your forum name.  Thanks!

Joe I just emailed you. It's Tina!

I like to bring up my calorie intake about 500 extra every 10 days. I mostly do it in a mix of food I eat or I slam down a thing of Ben&Jerry's Ice cream lol. 

Ben and Jerry's - spectacular brand.  My wife even got me a pint of Cherry Garcia for Valentine's Day - that's true love!

LOL. True that Dr Joe. 

I'm going for Cold Stone: sinless cake batter, brownie, peanut butter, and graham cracker pie crust. Pure sugar coma heaven.

Hi everyone!

So I will be doing my first figure show in 7 weeks and I have been thinking a lot about the "after." I am loving the way my body is looking and how lean I have become in thirteen weeks. I guess my concern is because I have been dieting for so long, will I go nuts afterwards and eat everything in sight? How will my body respond to this? I have lost 13 pounds and I still have about 9 more to go. I am at 114 now and 5'3. I just don't want to blimp out after this is all said and done. I would like to continue eating healthy and of course having cheat days.

Any thoughts?

-Tina